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Arktkt
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject: Is architecture just an egocentric LIE? |
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Were you expecting the difference between the real world and academic world? are you disillusioned?I am passionate about design, been working my ass hard , a tough academic curriculum, but was fun to create in school .In practice i had my up and down , feeling satisfied one day and 3 month cursing- i worked for 3-4years and now i decided to quit, resign by choice. I am flirting with other ideas, changing my whole career. We were trained in school to have ourselves as clients-a crucial mistake- The real world bring many forces and the design period is very short and the technical and business aspect of architecture overpower the creativity we were trained to use. Add to all that slavery hours and "Peanut" salary comparing to other profession. SO i woke up one day and looked at myself wondering what i am doing to society, what is the role of architecture in this character-less century-Is there any use for us, is there anyway where we can bring the renaissance time back?How developers, clients [that doesnt know David sculpture from Alexander the great] are leading the way, making decisions and we sitting watching how our design get deformed. So final question, is there any disillusioned architect outhere, any of you thinking of taking the streets for an architecture revolution, a peaceful walk asking to redefine architecture in this century, asking for higher wages, new standards?
and did anyone of you thought of changing careers into medecine, politics, other and did it?did you find a way out?
A-RKTKT |
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Architorture
millennium club
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Is architecture just an egocentric LIE? |
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| Arktkt wrote: | Were you expecting the difference between the real world and academic world? are you disillusioned?I am passionate about design, been working my ass hard , a tough academic curriculum, but was fun to create in school .In practice i had my up and down , feeling satisfied one day and 3 month cursing- i worked for 3-4years and now i decided to quit, resign by choice. I am flirting with other ideas, changing my whole career. We were trained in school to have ourselves as clients-a crucial mistake- The real world bring many forces and the design period is very short and the technical and business aspect of architecture overpower the creativity we were trained to use. Add to all that slavery hours and "Peanut" salary comparing to other profession. SO i woke up one day and looked at myself wondering what i am doing to society, what is the role of architecture in this character-less century-Is there any use for us, is there anyway where we can bring the renaissance time back?How developers, clients [that doesnt know David sculpture from Alexander the great] are leading the way, making decisions and we sitting watching how our design get deformed. So final question, is there any disillusioned architect outhere, any of you thinking of taking the streets for an architecture revolution, a peaceful walk asking to redefine architecture in this century, asking for higher wages, new standards?
and did anyone of you thought of changing careers into medecine, politics, other and did it?did you find a way out?
A-RKTKT |
i think you may have come to the place to find people "sick" of architecture.... but there are also those who are a bit more optimistic and aren't running around crying "the sky is falling!"
personally i consider architecture to be a reflection of the society in which it exists... right now, society doesn't have much use for architecture as a way through which it can express itself... things like economy, technology, ect ect are the ways societies measure their greatness... some of those things are finding their way into architecture more and more, so maybe the importance of architecture will also gain weight... |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Arknotect, without denying that architects should be fairly compensated for the real value they bring to a project, and without glossing over the hard work, long hours and stress of the profession being dramatically transformed, why aren't you communicating the strengths of the profession? No profession is more deserving of the public's respect and a client's appreciation. But architects must be the first and most insistent in making their own case. And no first step is more important than believing in yourself and your profession.
Coming off like a winner is no guarantee you'll win the contract every time. Negativism, on the other hand, is a self fulfilling prophesy  |
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LeCorbusier
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Go with your instincts. For you to even pose this question, probably means you instincively know the answer. On the more practical end, Yes, architectural design is practically dead. Sproradic examples of good architecture surface occasionally, Overwelmed by a sea of greed, the construction industry has tossed aside the architect. Architects don't have any progressive ideas anymore. Look to the new technologies for an interesting career. Architects don't make buildings, we make drawings, the art of drawing is lost, Our pencils have been replaced by the mouse, and drawings look as cold and empty as our concepts. |
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LeCorbusier
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I am trying to spread the truth about this dying profession, not blow more hot air up the asses of snot-nosed college kids like these professors do. College enrollment is on the decline and I know that colleges do not want to encourage any student to drop out. You can turn me off but, every single person involved in this industry knows that there is at least some truth to what I say. Go forth on your own path, but dont say I didnt warn you, I just wish someone warned me. |
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Architorture
millennium club
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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i thought college enrollment was at an all time high?
aren't schools in the US graduating like 10k students a year with an architecture degree of some level?
i will agree that schools of architecture are under tremendous pressure to keep their numbers up since universities don't want to lose that money if a student drops out...
i know from my own experiences that this is certainly a problem. i will be graduating with a class of 39 this year, that is a larger class for PSU...and i'm pretty certain there are people who will be graduating that should have never come this far...
but when the university sees that a major has attrition rate of higher that 60% over a 5 year period they get a bit upset, even though almost every drop out stays at the university in the end...
but the problems with education run alot deeper than that i think... and that is certainly the beginning of everything, education, which i agree needs some serious thought put into it.... |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Enrollment is UP and so is the marketplace...so don't be worried about that torture...as you most likely will find yourself competing to get into an office after graduating.
Design as LC puts it is not well understood as he would like it to be...progressive or not. In fact, its quite common to encounter people who say that design is a waste of time and money...could be some of those clients who LC works for. Nevertheless, with each passing month, it becomes more apparent to me that good design is not only advisable but crucial to both competitive advantage and a better quality of life. Good design is a key to ensuring economic viability and business leadership. Indeed, good design is good business.
Design, however, needs more advocates. More soul mates. More sellers and persuaders. Good design needs leaders who are positioned to be listened to and who can deliver the message with clarity and conviction. The built environment is saturated with too much new coming on line, too much repetition, too many templates and thats where bad butts head with the good.
I refer to the quote of Churchill: "success is never final". Success is a journey. The only problem with being a success is that you have to keep on being a success. Successful people aren't just lucky. Good things happen because people are willing to think smart, work hard, take risks and be resilient....but never "Negative....the "n" word thats a self fulfilling prophesy" |
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LeCorbusier
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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What you say Donald is not even arguable. We as architects understand the importance of good design and appreciate the effort. And yes, we
need more advocacy. Maybe if someone really had real answers, it would reach the public's concience. I dont see any real progressive concepts that are civic minded. Has Renzo Piano really given us anything besides pretty buildings?, or Should all buildings be made of swirling titanium? These are the folly's of the few elite, but they havent provided us with any real progress. I see refinement of modernism and that is good but Our society is always looking for the new star and we are never going to find a true selfless architecture in doing so. |
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Architorture
millennium club
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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maybe it is b/c we are looking too much at the 'rockstar' architects as a borometer of the profession... i think there is certainly lesser known architects doing great work that few hear about...
LC do you feel there has to be one cohesive movment in architecture in order to create something of importance that will be given the consideration of society at large? |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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What does it take to be admired? An act of statesmanship or an artistic breathrough qualifies.
Among architects, Sullivan, FLW head the list of the most admired, as do the living AIA Gold Medalists, Pritzker Prize winners, Renzo and Frank and a cast of many other AIA and FAIA practitioners who demonstrate it's possible to design public buildings and campus facilities that beat budgets, respect the dignity of the users, and celebrate good design (without being on the cover of Record).
Our society does look for new stars, or who's who to select the hottest or most sought after fashion of the day. That has and will continue to happen. Helmut finally won his AIA firm of the year after how many fashion statements of past gone by...who knows, maybe you will one day be out there in a future firm award. What you seem to be searching for is some new design direction that catches on like "post modernism" did 20 years ago, and it hasn't landed yet... so create one LC.
Admiration doesn't take much to flourish. How many of us had our lives changed thanks to a patient teacher who took some extra time to find something in us that even our parents didn't see? As most architects have discovered, public recognition for one's best shot isn't inevatable. We can't depend on applause from others. Instead, we must be our own cheering section, especially when times are tough. |
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RWL
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 399
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:18 am Post subject: |
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I agreee with Donald, but I also think there are "two architectures"!
For every project published and ballyhooed, or ones that even win local AIA chapter awards, how many other projects are fully successful and yet received no acclaim or "ink"? Hundres, if not thousands. Hence, the "second architecture" side by side with the published and acclaimed architecture [notice I didn't even say "first"]
Here is where, I feel, that AIA, nationally, is ill-serving its membership. There should be on-going ads-- TV and print-- in the context of "what did an architect do for you today"? Here insight into the daily, if not hourly impact of the profession could be depicted-- in the daily, routine lives-- going to the bank; to the store; to work in office buiding or factory; to school; etc.
The general public does not have any idea of what an architect is, or does. They do not have a "family architect" like they have a family doctor, or family butcher! They are never exposed to the work of the architect, they think-- but we know better, and it is that which should be drive of the profession-- not just the rhetorical celebration, hype, discussion and arguing over the cuttng edge concepts and designs.
Remember somewhere in the offices of all of the "signature architects" there are "bread and butter" projects-- routine; mundane?; uncelebrated if even acknowledged, but by golly, they pay the electric bills while the "BIG" projects often lose money.
Colleagues! There is work to be done for our image! |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I'm sure there are many who never tried to understand the background or said that they valued the services of their family doctor or butcher also....so I would have to respond to this last post by simply stating "don't whine". Some architects complain that the public doesn't understand or value their services, even considering themselves as second rate architects. I have heard a depressing litany of the many ways in which architects were not being appreciated. Without denying the real challenges facing the profession in a rapidly changing world, the fact remains that the primary responsibility for being valued falls squarely on your shoulders. Put yourself in the shoes of potential clients: what must they be thinking when they hear architects ask their pity rather than their confidence?
If its the AIA that you are looking to in advocating something truly important in our profession, you must have conviction to get to their nerve center of our greatest results in making such a publicity change. But as your confidence builds though, you will soar to new heights, with or without the AIA backing you. The point I'm making is that you can't depend on the recogintion and applause from others...including the AIA. Even when it does come, its a fleeting moment and soon becomes as distant as last weeks headlines. Again, as I've stated above, you have to be your own cheering section.
It doesn't take public recognition to know we've made a difference. It doesn't take someone else's applause, nor does it take the front page headlines or cover story, the speeches, the ceremony, and the wonderful excitement of a day like today to demonstrate what should be our most demanding critic - ourselves -that we've done well.
Real success, the kind that will not slip away once the applause has died down, is the difference our dreams make to the quality of our own lives. Remember this day. Treasure it, but don't depend on it. Don't depend on it as you head on your way to achieving excellence. The sound that will ring most true in your ears as you navigate the high and inevitable low points that are sure to follow this special day, the words that will count will be your own inner voice saying, "I did my best"  |
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Architorture
millennium club
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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donald, can you speak at my graduation  ...haha |
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Arktkt
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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I strongly support "lecorbusier" Ideas in this forum as well as RWL, about the public lack of knowledge for design and architecture. It is the Media after all that makes this century. I do disagree with Donald that not everything said maybe in a negative or pessimistic approach is "whining". We need to face the real facts on the ground rather than Theorize.There are "Hidden Stars" In architecture, that we never hear about but it is ARCHI-HOLLYWOOD that we hear about. The circle of Rockstar architects at the top are well politically connected, immersed in their ego,, channelling work to each other and overpowering other talented architects. But it is beyond that, Architecture is not serving its role. it is only a luxury rather than a need. The public see architecture as an accessory. You get trained in school to develop a design mind full of concepts, theories and other, and you end up dealing with a general public that is ignorant and you find yourself in a tough position. The architecture that is making the news lately is Architecture for Big names-Museums,Universities....where you may deal with people that appreciate art and risk in creating something new, daring. You see some residential projects here and there, Pockets rather than ponds. Architecture is a wonderful school of thoughts but is failing as a profession, this is not "whining" Nor pessimism. From facts as Product quality to techincal drawback , as salaries, "mode de vie", architecture is failing.
Just ask this question to yourself:
Hoe does it feel that we , trained to be designers , architects, Fantasize about good stuff and never able to get them. This is a Naive example but has underlaying understanding: Isn't it ironic that Architects cannot afford a "Barcelona" Chair By Mies while dentists -Lawyers-Doctors do?were we born to debate and discuss or ACT?
I propose starting a Group that aims to redefine the standards,I do see a lot of people in this forum that may be interested in doing so.
Architects for a political cause-
ARKTK |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Arknotect, in your first post you said:
| Quote: | | In practice i had my up and down , feeling satisfied one day and 3 month cursing- i worked for 3-4years and now i decided to quit, resign by choice. |
and:
| Quote: | | The real world bring many forces and the design period is very short and the technical and business aspect of architecture overpower the creativity we were trained to use. Add to all that slavery hours and "Peanut" salary comparing to other profession. |
and now you are stating:
| Quote: | | The public see architecture as an accessory. You get trained in school to develop a design mind full of concepts, theories and other, and you end up dealing with a general public that is ignorant and you find yourself in a tough position. |
I have traveled to many places across USA , Europe and Asia, and I have talked with many people in construction, business and design communities. Some feel that the architectural profession is headed in the wrong direction and slipping into decline...kind of like you and LC seem to be feeling. But you are not representative of those who consistently realize success. They don't give in or quit their firms because of unreasonable or ignorant clients. And its these architects and their supportive, insightful clients that have persuaded me to remain optimistic about the strength and value of the profession. To them (and myself), the current turmoil is not a sign of decline, but the opportunity to create a new identity and with it a new reality...for you a new reality sounds like throw in the towel and start something different.
In the future I see architects at the center of revelancy and value. Not just players but leaders. Not just offering traditional services, but offering creative full services. Not just coordinating, but collaborating, associating and more often outsourcing.
Not just marginally rewarded for peanut salaries, but fully compensated. Not just concerned about design and quality, but with courageous insight and economic relevance offering inspiration during negotiations.
This much I know based on experience and stories of progress from across the globe: As concern grows for shaping a better, more compassionate world, we are entering an era of great opportunity for the enterprising architect. For many it will be a new and deeply fulfilling reality...for you, the choice is yours only, and for you alone to make it. If you continue chasing those magazine dream teams, and comparing your pitiful self to those who have made it, you need to propose starting a Group that has nothing to do with architecture...maybe a lonely hearts club is better suited for you. |
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