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mx2
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1967
Location: Miami, Florida
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 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Algebra is a branch of mathematics concerning the study of structure, relation, and quantity. |
I fail to see why you feel Algebra, or any other math subject, is not important to the development of students broader understanding of Architecture and all that relates to Architecture. Algebra is critical to understanding all other disciplines, for example. Keep in mind, Architects must supervise and direct the engineers and their work. We are required, by law, to oversee all systems that make up any given building. For example, I have to review and mark up all drawings sent to me on my projects. And believe me, engineers screw up all the time. To be fair, so do I. But the point is an Architect should be required to take Algebra, Geometry and Physics, at a minimum. If we truly want to devalue the role of Architects then we should not require them to learn these disciplines. And more importantly, these are exercises meant to teach students the technical aspects of the industry which is what you have been a proponent for. These are not art classes, as you often decry our studies to be...
mx2.5
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*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Sorry but I find it a little difficult to believe that you are performing an independent structural analysis in order to verify a structural engineers work.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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solidred
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 596
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris, just today I worked through a series of co-ordinational issues, including getting a steel beam to align with a steel post to hit another steel beam intersecting with another steel post... at the right level, some 50cm (2") to the right and about 3" below where the engineer had estimated these should be. OK, so this is no algebra problem but surely a job -architecture or otherwise - is an instance of life and university education a 'leading out' into life. At such an early age people should be informed about open-ended basics and attitudes, not shoe-horned into specifics. |
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csintexas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, that ain't algebra.
College age isn't really that young. I learned basic algebra in high school.
I am all for teaching advanced math I just happen to think it would be much more interesting and applicable if it where to be combined with architecture instead of unto itself.
I just ran into an algebra problem though and couldn't solve it quickly so I decided it wasn't important enough to bother with and fudged it instead.
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Chris Stewart
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mx2
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1967
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I just ran into an algebra problem though and couldn't solve it quickly so I decided it wasn't important enough to bother with and fudged it instead. |
I hope it wasn't important.  But then again, that seems to be what we're discussing...what value you place on knowing certain things, certain subjects. Keep in mind, Architecture is all-inclusive. We are supposed to be, at a minimum, aware of everything and expert at as many as possible.
Algebra is good for calculating the relationships between elements and trigonometry is good for calculating areas and volumes. To be more specific to your issue, Algebra helps us determine what any given variable ought to be. Think cfm, gpm, basic structural moments, even simple things like attic ventilation or volume for space, pools or whatnot. It's not like some sign jumps out and says that you are using "Algebra"...you just know how to think with variables because you've been trained to do so.
And no, smart ass, I don't do a complete structural analysis to check a structural analysis. But I took 4 structure courses so that I can understand what a structural engineer does and know when his determinations or recommendations are off or too little or too much. Same with air conditiong, heating and ventilation, lighting, eletrical systems, plumbing systems, civil, etc, etc, etc...I took courses in all of them and have been having to deal with these on a very real and very serious basis.
mx2.5
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*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1773
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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No it was a moot point about how my CAD program determines the intersection of a joist and top plate.
That is my point, structures courses are the best way to learn math for architecture. Any time you can apply math to a particular problem that you are interested in it increases your ability to learn and retain that knowledge.
These days I would not be surprised if the majority of students take care of that requirement in high school anyway. The only thing I would do different is distribute that structures courses evenly throughout the entire education instead of in four three month increments. The semester concept is old fashion.
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Chris Stewart
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ArchiMotion
Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 315
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| mx2 wrote: | | Quote: | | I just ran into an algebra problem though and couldn't solve it quickly so I decided it wasn't important enough to bother with and fudged it instead. |
I hope it wasn't important. But then again, that seems to be what we're discussing...what value you place on knowing certain things, certain subjects. Keep in mind, Architecture is all-inclusive. We are supposed to be, at a minimum, aware of everything and expert at as many as possible.
Algebra is good for calculating the relationships between elements and trigonometry is good for calculating areas and volumes. To be more specific to your issue, Algebra helps us determine what any given variable ought to be. Think cfm, gpm, basic structural moments, even simple things like attic ventilation or volume for space, pools or whatnot. It's not like some sign jumps out and says that you are using "Algebra"...you just know how to think with variables because you've been trained to do so.
And no, smart ass, I don't do a complete structural analysis to check a structural analysis. But I took 4 structure courses so that I can understand what a structural engineer does and know when his determinations or recommendations are off or too little or too much. Same with air conditiong, heating and ventilation, lighting, eletrical systems, plumbing systems, civil, etc, etc, etc...I took courses in all of them and have been having to deal with these on a very real and very serious basis.
mx2.5 |
It is very clear "some people" around here do not even have a minimal idea what they are talking about. Rather, they demonstrate their ignorance. They are also giving me a pretty hard time in my other posts, by not reading anything or any evidence I provide to support what I am presenting.
Now, good job Mx - keep up the good work of explaining the architectural profession. Some people do not seem to understand all the complexities involved in the exercise of the profession, and, by not being themselves architects, in turn pretend to be experts on subjects they do not even themselves understand. It is very clear in this thread as well, as well as in my thread on Scientists presenting Mis-Information, which was re-titled to a silly name without my consent. In any event, the profession is much too complex for people to understand unless they themselves should become architects. These people doing the criticism are not architects, but rather people who are demonstrating they have no idea what they are talking about. I look at things from a scientific point of view and am willing to accept if someone can prove me wrong. What I hate to see in these forums is members deriding others out of ignorance.
Such as what is happening here -->>
http://www.designcommunity.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20854&sid=7ea40ec0919fedde66f663083d3406cf
And none of the forum rules are being followed there, as these people are braking every one of them, with no word from the forum administrators. |
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1095
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Archimotion, you are disrupting the conversation. Using the architecture forums for running complaints about reactions to your Creationist postings in the Fireside Forum... is simply not appropriate.
Please consider this a second warning. |
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ARC1TEC
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, well, really as a new member to this group I can see you are all getting on very nicely keep up the good work, everyone. Thankyou.
Seriously though you do make me laugh. Architects could not perform their function, properly, without a good foundation in algebra, period.
One reason I like architecture so much is that being the highest form of art it is the only one that encompasses so many disciplines.
Algebra is part of that art.
You could teach a child architecture and when you've finished teaching the child now an adult, would have had a full education. You would not have to teach anything other than architecture because all areas of academia can be applied to architecture one way or another.
Now give yourselves a big round of applause.  |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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You could teach a child architecture and when you've finished teaching the child now an adult, would have had a full education. You would not have to teach anything other than architecture because all areas of academia can be applied to architecture one way or another.
Yes that would be my point. good job!
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Chris Stewart
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ArchiMotion
Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 315
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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djswan: | Quote: | I have just observed an amazing event.
I hear a bleating sounds and dog barks outside and the trample of kids feet. upstairs. My son is having a friend stay over. I run upstairs to see what is going on. Out the door, to see my wife holding a fawn whitetail that seams a bit upset. A co-workers Jack Russell is acting like a Jack Russell. It's appears to be chaos. I tell the kids to get the camera.
My wife tells me to help. The dog is too fast for me to grab. The co-worker and dog owner grabs dog and flings dog a good estimate 25 feet of so. Thinking the dog problem was over, I tell my wife to let the fawn go. She does. The dog fling bought about 2 seconds for the fawn, the dog was not fazed by the fling.
Off to the races, down across the moderatly traveled road, in front of the house, down to the river, was the fawn, the dog, myself and a co-worker and sounds of cars mixed with my wife's good advise that I couldn't decipher during my run.
The fawn's heading with the dog nipping at it's tail became apparent, when approximatly five deer spang from every direction, across the road, across the river, and across my path. It appeared that deer were everywhere at that moment in time.
The fawn escaped to brush, the dog nipping at whatever it could nip at the embedded fawn. The co-worker grabs dog and does not fling this time, and we walk back and all is well, time to tell, battery was dead in the camera and now the kids are fighting about pokemon.
It just happened not more than ten minutes from the start of this post.
How fun life can be.
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Have a nice day |
ArchiMotion: | Quote: | Humm... could this be attributed to some type of imbalance in the environment around you? Smile
I think you need to find the source for this dis-equilibrium by consulting Mr. Feng Shui. Maybe you will discover the fawn was distressed about the position Mr. Dog is placed in the environment, thus creating a need to re-configure the dog's environmental position, thus re-establishing a sense of balance in the same. Or maybe Mr. Dog is not happy with the physical space alloted and also being incorporated by Mr. Fawn. Perhaps she was attempting to define a new territorial idea, thus allowing here eco balance to be restored by becoming one with men, and incorporating her envisioned space into the equation. The only problem was that Mr. Dog's balance was thus upset, and a tension arose. Perhaps by re-energizing your internal mind to synthesize the chaos in a balanced way, you will then figure out how to re-order your environment. Then you could say you have reached the sublime state of ultimate equilibrium. |
Madimel | Quote: | | You should be the spokesperson for FengshuiArch. Your explanation makes more sense than him so far. |
djswan | Quote: | | Karma is restored. I feel balance. Many thanks for the fine wisdom. Live long and prosper. |
Without these ingredients, there is no balance in one's life. One may not even realize the folly one is comiting untill we stand back and look really what is going on.
And in this same discussion on Feng Shui we have:
csintexas: | Quote: |
The same way that ArchiMotion tries to replace science with religion in creation theory. |
See this is the thing, I am asking for science and objective analysis as well. At times, we can try to answer questions in a more intuitive manner, there is no need for emotional responses, I agree. The issues, not being addressed there, ended up being brought into the discussion on Feng Shui. So I agree, we need to maintain things in the proper position and perspective, where they belong.
All one needs is a little objectivity, patience, understanding and tolerance - no secret formulas.
The same applies to this thread here about the architectural educational system. All views are welcome. Certainly we need to achieve a state were tolerance meets objectivity.
Maybe we need a little more Eastern wisdom into our educational system. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
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OK, let's us some Eastern wisdom. It sounds like a promising system. How does it work?
I need more information on this system. I think we should try several methods and see which one produces the best results. Don't you think that would be a good idea?
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Chris Stewart
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solidred
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 596
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris, I don't suppose this is what you're actually suggesting and -I think - we're more permitted to 'think aloud' here in internet forum land, but it's perhaps too much to expect advocates of all theories, propositions, attitudes etc. here to fully explain - from the ground up - the basis of their current position. Whilst it's courtesy for them to introduce themselves and their personal perspective, I think it's also necessary at a certain point for us to research - books or whatever - these issues. There's simply insufficient space and, indeed, time and energy, to cover all that is otherwise accessible in print. I guess I'm talking from a vantage point of having a library of hundreds of volumes covering a vast array of topics and a modest liberty of time to consult them, if not read them all cover-to-cover. But I know from his luxury quite how difficult it is to equate a paragraph typed in here to several hours'-worth of reading and to have that paragraph mean the same to someone else, even if I were an expert at abridgment. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1773
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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I don't understand.
Isn't the whole point of discussion to discuss?
If someone doesn't want to discuss their views why give them in a discussion forum in the first place? Why is asking someone for more information considered not allowing them to just think aloud? If they don't want to answer the question than they don't, this happens all the time. right?
What are we supposed to be doing -not interacting in lively debate?
I realize it takes effort to explain a view in any thorough way. For the record I don't expect anyone to devote more time to a discussion than they would like.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project
Last edited by csintexas on Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArchiMotion
Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 315
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| See this is the thing. One can point out these types of inconsistencies of thinking, which others seem to mis-understand, suggesting there is an interruption of thought. It is when objectivity has reached a dead-end road that such inferences are drawn. Where is the logic? And then, as demonstrated in the topic on Feng Shui, there is much that can be discussed on this matter in that subject, but requires knowledge and understanding of the subjects at hand. Even a minimum foundation of knowledge is needed in such discussions. And the same applies to other discussions, which are facing similar problems and inconsistencies, and non equal distribution of intervention. So why now would this contradict such threads? Is this an attempt of cultural hegemony? Now, for the philosophical application of such methods into modern architectural thinking, much can be said. It is debatable if this integration between the Eastern and Western thinking can also remove the very cultural diversity which was the cornerstone of such societies. Thus the West will never be able to embrace pure forms of Eastern thinking. |
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