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Ed Ziomek
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 440
Location: Stamford, Connecticut
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 Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:48 am Post subject: God is not listening |
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Actually, I know there is a spiritual being, because he doesn't intervene in the senseless slaughter, and killing and war. Why bother?
Man has never learned peace, it is like we prefer war.
Three weeks ago, it was Kenya, then Darfur again, Gaza this week, always Afghan and Iraq and lately Pakistan...
But I say a prayer for the families and wonderful humans we will never know, that are now passed.
Dear God, we need to find love again.
Amy Grant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ETZGzE83U
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 494
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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don't forget the pending war Vs USA/Columbia in south America that is close to breaking out the USA is backing a unilateralist adjenda to keep people power down again down there.
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The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
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SDR
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1538
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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"I know there is a spiritual being, because he doesn't. . ."
Sounds like Homer Simpson's "contract" with God: "If you wish me to eat this cookie, show me no sign. . .very well, it will be done."
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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i'm suprized your not Bright
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Ed Ziomek
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 440
Location: Stamford, Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: Too true.... |
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Yes, Homer Simpson... I resemble all of that. I have a very close friend that is on a minute by minute watch... will pass today or tomorrow. Maybe he is the lucky one, because we are next. How many of my friends and acquaintences have cancer, or claim to have survived cancer, or some life threatening disease? Virtually all of them/us.
It has been an emotional week for me. These are things we cannot control.
Bright, not at all. Inquisitive, always.
But on what we can minimize, such as world relations, and talking with our neighbors, are we any better off? How many wars is America involved with at this exact second? Can you imagine if we NOW get involved in Venezuela too?
How many countries are we bombing? Afghan, Iraq, Somalia, and ???
The election is shaping up on two sides, in my opinion... Endless war, and endless dialogue. Either could win.
This has been a wonderful thread, let's continue.
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Ed Ziomek |
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SDR
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1538
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I am sorry for your pain and loss, Ed.
Indeed these are troubled times. It is sad to see the "wealthiest" "greatest" "most powerful" "most democratic" nation so mired in its own waste and corruption, so nearly bankrupt is more ways than one. When will "we" see ?
Some are waiting for a better leader. We'll need more than one man (or woman) to see us to a better place, but it can happen. Education is the key. Replacing fluff media with real information (public broadcasting is still the least corrupted source, aside from some responsible print media, I think -- I wish the Internet were as reliable as many seem to believe, "belief" being the operative word) is a good start, for citizens of all ages.
Did you know the minimum wage is lower in real terms than it was thirty years ago ? Did you know we're spending $50B every three months in Iraq ? Did you know that, 100 years ago, Wall Street men and bankers typically saw themselves as responsible protectors of the public trust -- with justification, for the most part ? (I just read a profile of the 90-year-old Louis Auchincloss, a New Yorker who was there and survives to tell the tale -- see The New Yorker 2/25/08, p54> .)
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SDR
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Did you know that injured servicemen and women returning from Iraq and Afghanistan are presumed by the military discharge unit NOT to have been injured as the result of their combat duty, and that they have to prove otherwise before they can claim their rightful care and benefits ?
(The services did not anticipate the numbers of returning injured, and there is major backlog of applications for care and benefits.)
Did you know that servicepersons entering the military must pay $1000 at the time they enter or they will be permanently barred from claiming the education benefits that all service members have come to expect ?
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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i disagree you can never have winner with war and violence
it may look in the short term that it is possible or that you did but in the long term not at all
only win win resolution could work dialog direct with al qaudia
i can envision Obama and Osama having talks and Bush in a cell for war crimes and blowback.
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The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
may be acquired, Happiness through virtue which is based on knowledge!/? |
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Ed Ziomek
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 440
Location: Stamford, Connecticut
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: We disagree... |
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Antisthenes... I value highly your opinion, and pardon me for probably telling you what you also believe...I think.
But I respectfully disagree on the one small point of negotiations with genocidal killers like Al Qaida, FARC, name them.
There is a parallel universe out there among humanoids, and I truly believe it is a mental pychosis situation which appears exactly the same among the ancients.
It was called "blood letting" as a sign of devotion.
To show devotion to your God, you would allow yourself to be pierced in the tongue or ear or fact or body parts, and you would even allow yourself to be killed. The Mayan God called Baknal Chac is absolutely, positively the Greek version of the Baccinal Sheikh, the Baccinal Prince. The Mayans used human flesh and blood, the Greeks used blood and wine and animal flesh in identical orgiastic rites.
Mayan buildings were actually dedicated only if humans could be found to sacrifice. And in modern day, the practice of beheading innocents or suicide/homicide bombing, even on videotape, is accepted as part of the price of devotion to a cause, political and/or religious.
This kind of devotion, we westerners now would call deviant behaviour, where some other cultures still tear their flesh and blood-let to show their devotion, and another culture uses military might... the results are probably the same. I cannot call one culture right, and the other culture wrong. Probably we are all wrong in some ways. We are talking about at least 5000 years of cultural beliefs.
So, we have the clash of two modern cultures or mind-sets, one accepts blood letting and sacrifice of innocents, the other does not.
Can you negotiate a change in this 5000 year old cultural mind set? I say no.
There is only one rule that I know of, from myself who as a wimp-geek faced down too many bullies in my life...
"You play in your sandbox, I will play in mine".
And... "You step into my sandbox, and intend to hurt me...we have a problem, we cannot coexist."
The "blood letters" stepped into our sandbox in 2001, and we smacked them down hard.
But when we overstayed in their sandbox, trying to change them... that is where we went wrong, I truly believe.
There are 10,000 moments when we should talk, and then there are the too often singular moments in the history of man, when the military must be used, even at the risk of losing.
Knowing when to say "when", and "how long"... that is the trick.
So, negotiate with the blood-letters murderers? No, I don't think so, in my opinion.
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SDR
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting. The only thing i can suggest there, and I know you must have thought of this, is that perhaps the negotiation can be with a representative who, while still a member of the "blood-letters" is also a man who has moved beyond -- or can "come across" -- yet who has the respect of his people.
Anything there ? I can certainly agree that two radically different peoples might better be kept apart, for the good of all. The NeoCons apparently don't see it that way, though -- as long as there's available crude in the territory !
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 494
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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i wouldn't static label anybody it is far too dehumanizing
and that is the problem people believe in a false evil to justify their violent actions
a dialog with all theists about this is completely necessary to move past this problem
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The most necessary/useful piece of learning is that which unlearns what is untrue: 'evil'
may be acquired, Happiness through virtue which is based on knowledge!/? |
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SDR
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1538
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. But it isn't that "people believe in a false evil to justify their violent actions" -- it's that they have been led to believe that the "evil" of others REQUIRES them to take violent action. A slight difference in emphasis, but that is (as you say) the thing that must be discussed.
In most cases, I believe, religions teach non-violence, but many "sacred texts" contain examples of vengeance (often, I think, as a way of threatening believers into GOOD behaviors, ironically) that can be used to incite violence against non-believers (i.e., bad people, non-conformers), often by violence-prone and (for all we know) pathological dissident or fringe leaders.
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Ed Ziomek
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 440
Location: Stamford, Connecticut
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: Negotiating with psychotics...? |
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Let's take Iraq at this exact moment, for example. The "false evil" for America is long gone, and the Iraqis are starting to retake their country, but if they don't... we tried. Goodbye! We can't use this excuse forever. No negotiations, just get on the next bus and leave.
No matter who is elected, the standing "Al Qaida" rule is and will be...."If we meet, we will fight!"
An interesting note, though...a senior Iraqi official stated on American Public Radio that the "Awakening" in Iraq was making things much better, in no small part because the people themselves disconnected themselves from Al Qaida.
"No foreign military force made this awakening, the Iraqi people made the awakening!"
In no other small part, the Iraqi tribal leaders were handed individual responsibilities for their own territories, their own neighborhoods, something that is not publicized much, and that included getting rid of Al Qaida in their territories as much as they could. However, if they are not successful, in their own country, it is not our job to fix.
PS...Ahmedinejad is politically in trouble within Iran...losing support, and Chavez is a pariah around the globe.
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Ed Ziomek
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
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Location: Stamford, Connecticut
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Antisthenes
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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the reason the awakinging is happening is because usa is paying/bribing them not to fight usa soldiers from what i read
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may be acquired, Happiness through virtue which is based on knowledge!/? |
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