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Nold Egenter
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 43
Location: Zurich Switzerland
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 Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: SPACE: DWELLING AND BEING (Introduction) |
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Good morning,
yesterday I consulted the Wikipedia for the term 'space'. Surprise! There were only some extremely condensed paragraphs mainly from standpoints of mathematics, physics and astronomy. On the cultural side philosophy and psychology, both extrmely short too. Nothing about architecture!
Somehow frustrated I changed to the German word 'Raum'. Again surprise: quite a lot about architecture. And other aspects of culture. It stimulated me to write a summary, discussion style. Soon!
In the meantime the book review on Bollnow 'Man and Space' (1963 in German, Mensch und Raum). Very likely it is one of the most important books of the 20th century in the cultural domain. It gives a humanistic (or anthropological) evolution theory of space related to the architectural organisation of space.
A MUST FOR ARCHITECTS!
Warm Regards,
Nold Egenter
_________________
Architectural Anthropology (vol. 1) figures among ca. 200 books under the title
*Theory of the world*
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~lemelin/bib_pt04.html |
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lekizz
millennium club
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1045
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Great contribution, Nold! I went to a lecture at college recently entitled "How artists and architects treat space". It was thoroughly disappointing with the unquestioning assumption that everyone had the same understanding of 'space'. To be blunt, the lecture was complete cr@p! |
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Please let me say it like this, and you english speaking proberly will have difficulty understanding this, but it is much better to leave the word "space" in it's english form understand it with your english knowleage and forget about translating it -- it took me years to realise this and simply accept it, but there are no good translation from english to danish for the architectural term ,space. |
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Nold Egenter
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 43
Location: Zurich Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:13 am Post subject: |
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To 'lekizz'
Thank you for your positive comment. Your critical point about the lecture you attended refers to one of the most dramatic changes between pre-modern and modern, resp. post-modern architecture. The continuous dialogue between topological characteristics of intra/extra-architectural spaces and sensorily and mentally active humans was - unconsciously - sacrificed to a diffuse macrocosmic, universally homogeneous space concept which completely banned this dialogue. It is doubtless an empoverishment of the human condition. Last year, on a sunny autumn day, I spontaneously made a small - and technically quite dilettantic - movie of some parts of the old city of Zurich. On seeing it on the screen later I was surprised of the density of 'toposemantic signs' of tectonic and historical character in each sequence. I think it is this intense dialogue which keeps the historical nuclei of cities alive in our surrounding modern 'spacelabs'!
To 'P.C.'
I am very much surprised about what you say. I would like to know the word. In view of English and German there is a great difference between the two. English language has adopted the French 'espace' which is derived from the latin term 'spatium', which in fact means 'gap' between two physical limits (Zwischenraum) in fairly abstract terms. In contrast to this evolved concept the German term 'Raum' is more 'primitive' (in the [positive] culturo-evolutionary sense) meaning 'clearing' (after taking off plants to prepare a place for dwelling) or 'glade' (Lichtung) within woods. It thus shows a processual character in which the topologically active (human) part is still implied. I would assume that the Danish term should be somehow close to the German word Raum (Unfortunately I have no dictionary for Danish here!) ???
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Architectural Anthropology (vol. 1) figures among ca. 200 books under the title
*Theory of the world*
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~lemelin/bib_pt04.html |
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:38 am Post subject: |
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If I as a danish shuld undrestand the term Space I would turn to the word "Rum" , much like the german word you mention , but even there there are a slight but important difference between the german Raum and the danish Rum while the danish frase can describe the Space (spacecrafts) and "one room" bur in danish it is not the chosen word for space with people, --- I think Space simply carry a third meaning in english or maybe in architecture.
I also say this as I been fighting the term Space, as translating from danish to english you are missing a point with Space , ----- it's like the danish Rum requier no being inside the space described , it is "the" space not how it is offered , it is not the walls floors or qualities but the plain volume, or one room or seldom the ability to expand ----- sorry I said danish had troubles with the word ,Space. |
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venky
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:05 am Post subject: hi |
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Hi!!
I quite agrre with your post. It's really true. I have my thesis topic as spatial communication in architecture and few days ago i was in the same confusion as your's |
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Nold Egenter
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 43
Location: Zurich Switzerland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: |
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To P.C. and venky
"sorry I said danish had troubles with the word ,Space." I think just the opposite: it is very interesting to discuss this problem. And IT IS A PROBLEM! The content of words can grow and these different stages are integrated into the same combination of sounds. There is another word with similar problems: 'cosmos', with the meaning of 'universal space' and its substantial contents. Consequently, ancient texts today are exclusively translated with this notion, e.g. the creation report in the Ancient Testament. But, there is a study (Kerschensteiner 1962) which shows that in ancient Greek the word 'kosmos' just implied a more or less aesthetic cultural organisation like a military formation etc.. Immediately the word 'cosmetics' - which is of the same root - comes to our mind. Evidently the word 'cosmetics' has preseved the ancient 'microcosmic meaning' whereas the word 'cosmos' has accumulated all the results of learned observation and science of astronomy, in Europe mainly from the 14th century and on. Its macro-cosmic meaning became dominant or exclusive. It is not difficult to imagine the consequences. On one hand we have a very evolved concept of the macrocosm when we speak of astronomy, on the other hand this concept was projected into ancient texts thus completely distorting their content. We can find many Babylonian 'creation myths' which can very clearly be understood as legal texts related to settlement foundations! (And, in fact, the AT is basically a theocratic constitution!)
What does this mean for the architect? In theology this situaition is used to show that early man already venerated the macrocosmic dimensions of the world and created his microcosm in analogy (Eliade's theory). In contrast to this the architect discovers that there must have been an microcosmic aesthetic structure evolved in architecture in ancient times which served as a model to express increasingly extensive macrocosmic interpretations in various religions and in the framework of state power. It is what we called the 'vertical polarity scheme'. Maybe the architect should know archetypes like this, because architecture is also a 'language' in which 'words' are handed down through long periods of times, because they have important meanings.
We will return to this topic later with an essay on the surveys of Eurasian sacred architecture done by Dagobert Frey (see below).
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Kerschensteiner J. (1962) Kosmos: quellenkritische Untersuchungen zu den Vorsokratikern. München, Beck
Frey, Dagobert (1949) Grundlegungen zu einer vergleichenden Kunstwissenschaft - Raum und Zeit in der Kunst der afrikanisch-eurasischen Hochkulturen. Wiss. Buchges. Darmstadt (2nd ed. 1970)
_________________
Architectural Anthropology (vol. 1) figures among ca. 200 books under the title
*Theory of the world*
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~lemelin/bib_pt04.html |
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AM Putra
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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It is a bit ironical that even in each country the definition of 'space' is very plural. Space will never been clearly defined, even the slightest agreement, and that's why architecture is still exist until today.
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Architecture that I really love -Architectook- |
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jeruist
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 13
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