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How Goes It
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 337
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 Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: An extension of your 2D work ? |
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This might be something to consider.
form•Z has been used for 3D work by a number of PowerCADD users. The programs work well together. My opinion -- the best of 2D (PowerCADD/Wildtools), and the best of 3D (form•Z).
But some don't care for form•Z's complexity.
Sketchup is no doubt a wonderful program for many when having to take their 2D to the next step. Sketchup does have its' problems in certain cases. The geometry can become problematic, depending upon what you are going to do latter on.
Here's something that might be of interest to the PC community ---
Bonzai from form•Z.
http://formz.com/news/news.php |
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How Goes It
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| If anyone is going to AIA in Boston, it sure would be great if you could go by form•Z's booth and check out Bonzai, then give a summary of what you saw. |
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jasonlocher
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 614
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
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This looks like a great tool!
On another note, 100% of the time that I export a dwg from powercadd to FormZ, it reports corrupt objects. I wonder what the possibility of getting a powercadd to .fmz converter is. |
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lavardera
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 420
Location: merchantville, nj
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: An extension of your 2D work ? |
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| How Goes It wrote: | | Sketchup does have its' problems in certain cases. The geometry can become problematic, depending upon what you are going to do latter on. |
This strikes me as odd. I've cranked so much geometry through sketchup and I don't recall anything that I would describe as problematic. When the project is done its still not problematic. What exactly might I be doing later on that I'm not aware of yet that will become problematic?
I don't mean to be a wise guy, but you are throwing doubts on using sketchup with no specifics.
I looked at the link for "Bonzai" and there were no screen shots of the interface, no images of things modeled with it, and no price. Should I assume that all of this is problematic?
_________________
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greg |
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MikeCharek
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: Bonzai |
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Just got back from AIA convention. My first visit inside the "new" Boston Convention Center. A very impressive building indeed. Huge, but well laid-out, and pretty interesting spatially. And there is actually parking there. The whole surrounding South Boston Seaport area has seen tremendous growth the last few years, with quite a few new hotels and restaurants to support the convention center, and more development on the way. And the surrounding highway system has been cleaned up and organized quite a bit with the completion of the "Big Dig" project.
The show organizers had a "Software" section on the exhibit floor with most of the vendors clustered in one area. I thought that was better than having them strewn hither & yon as has been the case at Build Boston.
Autodesk had a massive booth, including a little "theater" with multiple (20?) laptops out on desks for folks to follow along with the on-screen demonstrations.
Google SketchUp seemed to be a focus of attention; lots of folks hanging around there, although SketchUp folks really didn't have anything new to show.
VectorWorks had a pretty good-size presence, but there didn't seem to be much action there when I happened by.
I looked in on the FormZ folks, and they had at least one machine running Bonzai. I haven't looked at FormZ for several years, so I'm not up on how it performs now, but Bonzai looked like a solid-modeling version of SketchUp. Similar tools, push/pull action, but all working on solids rather than on surfaces. A push/pull action doesn't end at a surface, but continues through any other stuff that's in the way. I must say it seemed rather intriguing. They said to watch their website for announcements on the public beta coming soon.
Some hot topics for the AIA:
Green/Sustainable Design
Zero Carbon
BIM
Integrated Project Delivery |
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GaryV
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 217
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds interesting Mike. I just have never grasped SketchUP and its surface modeling paradigm having used DesignWorkshop (apparently now dead), a solid modeler, for so many years. If anyone sees a demo version released please post here! |
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MikeCharek
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 160
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How Goes It
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
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Didn't mean to throw doubts Greg.
Like I said, I figure Sketchup to be a wonderful tool for many. I've recommended it a number of times. In your case and likely many others, Sketchup may be the perfect 3D app, where there is no need for any improvement, or need for a better toolset. On the other hand, all applications have their limits. And as such, there's no argument in saying Sketchup isn't the answer for everyone doing design.
Though Bonzai may fall short of form•Z in certain areas, it may turn out to be a great front end for form•Z. Something in which one could quickly get some basic ideas down on computer, to be later refined in the more powerful and full fledged form•Z. I would expect Bonzai to interface & import well, into form•Z.
For starters, parametrics & history as functions of modeling, for experimentation in design, can be very big time savers. I'll take a guess and figure history and parametrics are incorporated better into form•Z as compared to Sketchup. Does Sketchup have any history functions (lists).
No doubt the spline functions & editing are for more extensive in form•Z. Creating something using a spline can certainly be faster at times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhiWbPcDf-Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dg2fnyEBJI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAcR-PXs3xE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TlCTxDF5rk
Here, an example of modeling with animation, parametrics, sine, and noise, is displayed on the latter part of this video where a fence is modeled. The fence starts at 4 min. & 45 seconds into the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FcqrkI5u_I
form•Z's Object Palette is a great feature. You can turn off, ghost, group, lock, arrange, sort and rename objects in the list. You can also use this list to easily locate objects in a highly complex structure. It's been awhile since I used Sketchup. Does it have an Object Palette? I prefer having this in addition to a Layers Palette.
Here's an example of an organic furniture design done in form•Z --- http://www.formz.com/forum2/messages/142/bench_tutorial-23887.pdf
http://www.formz.com/forum2/messages/142/23886.html?1194381817
With a solid modeler such as form•Z, you can measure volume with one click.
Here is something to at least consider --- http://www.formz.com/forum2/messages/16/26367.html
Robert Woodruff made some interesting comments in the above string re. export and import.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0940466/
http://www.cgw.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=29104C393D1B4A98B71F05F6170F5E9A
As for Bonzai, I'm waiting along with others to see what it's all about. I want to know if it's something worth buying.
What's great though, is that another CAD program is coming to the Mac. Hopefully, Bonzai will be something that works well with PC/WT. Myself, I always like more to choose from.
Mike --- thanks for the heads up !
Steve |
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paulprd
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Hi All,
As you are threading a conversation on 3D. A mention, again about our little 3D baby in2space, the partner 3D modeller for PowerCADD. The name a play on PowerCADD into space. Here is a sneak preview of what it does so far. Not quite complete yet but we are getting there.
This tutorial is html based, so just drop the INDEX file into your browser and it will launch. Obvious when its open what to do.
http://www.prdsoftware.co.uk/in2tutorialmenudriven
Cheers
Paul |
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Jeff Bianco
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 16
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: AIA Convention |
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I also enjoyed seeing the grouping of Cad related booths at the AIA convention, and must add that it was disappointing not to see PowerCadd make the effort to showcase itself to its architect users.
On the sketchup line of discussion - I can only add - what's not to love? This is a simple and fast program that intuitively works the way you would expect |
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How Goes It
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 337
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Some more info on Bonzai & form•Z, as stated by Autodessys -
How does formZ relate to bonZai, and how will it be affected by it?
Upon its release, bonZai will be different than form.Z, especially in its interface, while it will also be relying on large parts of the modeling engines currently in form.Z. Once the ways of bonZai have been appreciated by users of form.Z, they will also be implemented in form.Z to the extent that they make sense. In the mean time, form.Z will continue to be updated and improved as a general purpose modeler. We may even label it "classic" in the future. Drastic enhancements (such as "object history" that Carlos Rego brought up once again) will happen through specialized versions of form.Z. bonZai may actually be though(t) of as one of those specialized versions that aims at addressing mostly conceptualization and sketching, while it also provides a path to detailed modeling, visualization, fabrication, etc.
ZWebTech Support
We would like to say that it is quite possible that construction history will be offered before the end of the year. However, we can not say it for sure. We are currently working on a number of different fronts, and it is impossible to predict which area may be completed before another. We will keep you posted.
ZWebTech Support
http://www.formz.com/forum2/messages/16/27189.html?1211294745
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So it looks like Autodessys may intend us to use Bonzai as a front end of form•Z, i.e. for quickly scratching out ideas, at least until Bonzai style tools & methods are incorporated into form•Z itself (if can be done). And it appears from the above text, that Bonzai is to be a path to detailed modeling, where apparently, the detailing is to be done in form•Z.
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Some of you may have noticed that in the above, Autodessys talked of Object & Construction History.
You may also recall that I mentioned History as a part of form•Z.
So what gives?
The answer is that at this point, form•Z does not have a full Construction History feature or palette, but rather only a limited construction history, yet very useful. It's part of the deformation tools (labelled Deformation LIst). It's mentioned by Autodessys in this video at a little over 3 minutes into the video, and refered to as a limited construction history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFqFHfZq0Nk
And as I mentioned parametric along with history, I'll say here that the parametric features of form•Z are quite extensive.
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FWIW, I hope no one would think this thread is meant to hijack the PC/WT forum. I view form•Z as an extension of the only 2D program I care to use - PC/WT. I've actually hoped that one would work as a plug-in of the other, and save even having to export & import. As much as I like form•Z's 3D -- form•Z's 2D is something I can't tolerate. As such, there is no competition, only benefits of using both (PC/WT & Z) together -- at least in my eyes. |
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MikeCharek
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 160
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