|
View previous topic :: View next topic
|
| Author |
Message |
csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1919
Location: USA
|
 Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: |
    |
|
LED lights are becoming more available all the time. I have seen regular screw in replacement bulbs just like are available with CFL. I think just a regular search should turn up many stores selling this type of product. Finding people with actual experience using them extensively will be much more difficult.
_________________
Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Miami, Florida
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
One of the biggest problems in this business is the relationship between client and architect based upon what is the expected process. That is why it is so critical to establish good communication and fully explain the entire method before engaging in any work. I have been burned too often trying to please the client first, before being true to myself, to my work. Architects too often have their wings clipped before being told to fly...
...for example, the issue here is that a client wants a boomerang shaped floor plan with specific spatial relationships in relation to the site. So far, it all appears to be reasonable, although absolutely a more costly approach (structurally). But at the same time, this is basically instructing the Architect to ignore their own ideas and somehow blindly start with some possibly random footprint that doesn't truly make sense with the site. But the part that disappoints me is what happened next: the architect presents their plans, the client rejects them and says design me the boomerang and the architect quits. There was alot of steps missed in between, particularly I find it very hard to beleive that the designer did not take the time to explain the reasons for the departure of the clients plans...there is nothing wrong in anything that has happened except for this step. There's something here that is not being fully explained...
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nanrehvasconez
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 213
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know from the original question in november 07 to march 08 is a long time, but retired people like me, do critical design analysis for peliminary architectural plans, land space planning and building orientation, interior motif ideas, etc.
look in cregslist.org |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Madimel
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Working with clients is definitely the most challenging aspect of what we do. I'm sure most of you have faced the challenge of the client's program of a small house with big rooms. Or the client being upset over something that they insisted they wanted and you're blamed for it because you didn't convince them not to. At that point, showing them the email of that conversation will only make them more upset. Of course the client always is the innocent party because the architect is the one who should know better. It would be interesting to hear the architect's side of the story in all of this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kmapro
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 130
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
mx2
Honestly, I am not trying to start anything and I am not calling you out, but I do want to question you about something...
Your comments disturbed me for the fact that you mentioned taking the creativity away from the architect yet the customer came to them with a general idea of what they wanted.
Your comments elude to the idea that the architect will supply the client with what the architect wants vs what the customer wants. This came across to me as if the architect is not taking any design consideration from the client at all.
The architects wings have not been clipped, the architects path has just been pointed in the correct direction.
I am sure that the client would have appreciated and enjoyed any input the architect had in regards to his/their home. As long as it fit the shape they were after and had their other prerequisites (# of bed/bath rooms, kitchen on first floor, etc, etc)..then the architect is still free to fly.
The challenge I would have seen is: OK, I know what they want, now let's give it to them.
If I were a client, I would never go to a designer or an architect without at least an idea of what I am looking for. Whether it be pictures, sketches or clear ideas....
If i am wrong in the perception I got from your post, please correct me..it just sounded as if you were insinuating that the architect should be able to design without concern for the client. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Miami, Florida
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
I appreciate your candor and sensible question Kmapro and completely understand why you raise the issue. I think we all agree that there is a challenge that is intrinsic to this profession when providing architectural servcies to any client. The dichotomy of this relationship resides in the nature of the architect providing the best solution to a design problem. The Architect is ultimately responsible for the final outcome regardless of all other forces, including the clients wishes. However, that is not all meant to insinuate that the Architect has "carte-blanche" to create per his/her own whims. But essentially that does not curtail the challenge for the Architect to explore and propose the best options. Should any client demand a design be one way, where does that leave the Architect? Architects are not supposed to be reduced to mere draftman afterall.
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Miami, Florida
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
p.s. - personal experience...I worked for a small firm doing commercial work and we got pushed around all the time. We were basically reduced to draftsmen...typical requests for "blueprints for permit".
now I work for a specialty firm (historic preservation) and we constantly have to insist for certain elements, regardless of being told otherwise by the client. We don't do these things for egotistical reasons...for example, one client wanted lay-in acoustical tile and grid in a historic building...a space that was to be for public gathering and display. I faltly told them no way, we're detailing it as plaster veneer and no two ways about it.
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nanrehvasconez
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 213
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
But that's what they wanted.
I couldn't do much for these people.
Today I'm working on a 5800 sq. ft. house that looks like it is on steroids trying to convince the owner that he doesn't really need a 10 high ceiling in the garage.
_________________
the pretentious mac mansion you are designing is "butt ugly" a miss match of all kind of roofs, so much stone, plank, brick. you should hire a good artitect or BD to teach you aesthetics |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Miami, Florida
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
A really good Architect will deliver to the client far more than they expected. And that begins by discovering what they truly want...not what they tell you they want that is literally interpreted.
I don;t know about you guys, but time after time we've given clients EXACTLY what they asked and when they see it for the first time in some redering or whatnot, they want to make changes...they suddenly begin "designing"...which ends up changing your scope or work and dragging your fee down with it.
I always present 3 designs...two variations of what they literally asked and one interpretive version to at least get them to see some new ideas. By the time I'm done, they ask me to present something they like in which case I usually go back to their first request as a basis and look for the best methodology for exploring improvements on the design...
...I'll give you an example. One client last week showed me a house on the side of a hill HE designed himself saying he wants it built that way but wanted my input. Keep in mind, this is on the side of a mountain with a view of a large seaside city in the distance...quite stunning...anyway, he deisgned it so the driveway ended up as the front of the house and you walked up some steps to the living room that overlooked the driveway and then the view...
Now I'm sorry...but there ain't now way in HELL I'm gonna not insist he put the driveway behind the house and give the view to the living room. I simply walked him through the entire process, starting with site lines, sun orientation, etc, etc...
It's how you communicate and develop a relationship with the client to work as a team. Neither one should be DICTATING to the other.
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Miami, Florida
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oof...McMansions...I feel sorry for you Nan. I will say this...not every project and not every client is gonna be great! I would say if you have a handful of great projcts in your career, you're doing okay. If you have more, you're doing great! I have had one great project so far and about 3 good ones...the others I've done over the last 12 years I could care less for them...
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1919
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mx2 wrote: |
It's how you communicate and develop a relationship with the client to work as a team. Neither one should be DICTATING to the other.
mx2.5 |
Yes! it is about communication. In this case they failed to explain their process to the client and this is why problems developed.
_________________
Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Miami, Florida
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree of course but it's interesting to note that your very first response was to request a refund. My point was that I do not agree that this is entirely the fault of the architects for not doing as told. And it must be clear as to what a refund means in this profession: we get paid for services rendered...meaning if I'm designing something for you, you owe me for my time regardless if you fire me or not. It's why I always ask for payment in phases and why i insist clients approve each phase before we commenc with the next...
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1919
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As a business owner I believe it is my responsibility to communicate with my clients what I am going to do for them and what that service will cost them. If I fail to do that than I am at fault and would not deserve to be paid.
I think it is pretty obvious that in this case they failed to adequately explain the conditions of there services. Otherwise the client would not be here complaining about them disregarding his preference of the basic shape of the house.
I think it is perfectly reasonable for any business to have control of their product as long as this is understood up front.
_________________
Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Madimel
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I agree communication is important, just as important as client's expectations. I find that clients are becoming too happy to blame the architect for anything that affects their project, schedule, budget, program, etc. Even with proper documentation, in the client's eyes, they feel they are exempt from their own errors. To cite an example, I was blamed for being grossly over budget on a large home. The problem was the client refused to divulge any budgetary numbers throughout the entire process. Their original program grew, by their direction, by 150%. When we offered to redesign the project with no additional fee, they refused to take any program out or reduce the finishes, but they expected us to take out 40% of the overall construction budget. Our warnings regarding the potential budget impact was well documented through emails and letters. At the end of the day, we had a very unhappy client who told us we didn't listen to their wishes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1968
Location: Miami, Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have a similar situation right now...we designed a large residential project and got a preliminary cost estimate of $3m, but after going thru DD's and CD's with direction from their interior designer and the owners insistence on certain finishes and fixtures, it mushroomed to $5m...now the client says they can only afford $3m. It's not a $3m project, no matter what they do...at best they may reduce it by $500K, but essentially this is a problem of the client adding to their wish list and not being able (or willing) to pay for it...yet they instructed the GC to make sure the budget is $3m. Like I told him...if they want a Mercedes, give them the price of a Mercedes, even if they only want to pay for a VW. If they want the VW, they will get a VW, not a Mercedes...it's their call, not ours.
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
blogger
del.icio.us
digg
slashdot
