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penny trupiano
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: repairing a weight bearing wall that was removed |
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I am new to this site so thank you for your patience with me especially if I use the wrong labels of the archietecture.
I would like some opinions regarding a project that we need to do. We have a house that was built in 1911. Previous owners have done several projects to the house one of which was to put on an addition on to the kitchen. Half the addition used a crawl space that appears to have been the original concept for access. The other half of the addition had a new slab poured for a floor. These owners were followed by another owner that decided that to accomodate their family dinners that they would tear out a weight bearing wall that joined the addititon to the house. The wall that they tore out supports the original main wall for the north side of the house and of course the roof to the original house. When they did this they put in three boards that are 2 by 8's or tens nailed together for support of the ceiling with footers that are 2 by 6s on each end (with there being two boards at each end). The ceiling beam straddles 16 feet. I believe first of all that the beam needs to be thicker as do the footers that go from the ceiling to the floor.
My question is this, it appears that underneath the floor there is no support where the footings for the ceiling are in the crawl space. I need to know what to do there.
Also, am I correct in believing that we need several more inches (above the floor) for support of the ceiling beam at both ends and also for the ceiling beam itself?
Last, How do you fasten multiple boards together to form a good beam? I have heard that they should be bolted togehter every ten or twelve inches. |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 565
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: Re: repairing a weight bearing wall that was removed |
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| penny trupiano wrote: | When they did this they put in three boards that are 2 by 8's or tens nailed together for support of the ceiling with footers that are 2 by 6s on each end (with there being two boards at each end). The ceiling beam straddles 16 feet.
My question is this, it appears that underneath the floor there is no support where the footings for the ceiling are in the crawl space. I need to know what to do there. |
Terminology
First to help you terminology so when you talk to a builder or architect - who you want to engage to help you - you will sound like a pro . 
The beam (the 2 x 8's or tens) is the proper name - it can also be called a "header" in this situation. Measure the depth of the beam (7 1/4" = 2 x 8's and 9 1/4" = 2 x 10). 2 x 10's are better. The notation would be 3) 2x10's beam when talking to a builder.
What you are calling footers (the 2 x 6's) are either called cripple studs, jack studs, or simply "solid bearing". These act like columns. Both should be directly under and at the end of the beam. Let's call them columns to keep things easy.
The footing is the part that carries the final load to Mother Earth. It can have two parts. The foundation - which we all see either as a basment wall or a foundation. It should be either concrete or concrete block. The footer sits under the foundation wall - typically 8"h x 16" w and is not visible. If the columns are resting on top of your foundation wall (or basement wall), the load probably is transfered properly to the footer.
The short answer: You need to talk to an architect or a structural engineer. Let them review the issue and provide recommendations. It might cost you 2-4 hours of their time at about $100-$150 per hour.
The long answer:
As one structural engineer always told me - the proof is in the pudding. Are there any cracking in the plaster or drywall? Does the header look to be bowing? Is the foundation (basement) wall below cracked? If not - you may be okay - however, this all depends if the beam as actually been loaded with a heavy snow load - that's when you might start to see trouble.
The beam might be sized alright - we can't tell by your description. We have to know all the loads being applied. This can only be done by visiting your house. (See short answer). This is the same with the columns.
The Building Code tells contractors how often, fastener size and so on when ganging structural members together. If a permit was ever applied for (probably not) then this condition was reviewed by your local building department. The question is two-fold - Do you have a local building code and was a permit pulled for the project? Assume the worst and see Short Answer.
I hope this gets you started. |
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1919
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:30 am Post subject: |
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I agree with phansford,
It is interesting that this structure is visible. Did the previous owners never finish the job? My first reaction is that a 3-2x8 beam is probably to small for a 16ft. span. If it was just done than it could be that not enough time has past for it to develop problems. But it could be that there is little actual load on it for some reason (we don't know). If this was originally a load bearing wall it should have a footing.
I think you are going to need someone to evaluate the situation.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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penny trupiano
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: 1911 House |
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Thank you guys incredibly for your help. I will try to describe this a little better. The header which runs along the ceiling is made up of three 2x 10's that were nailed together. They are leaning to one side slightly. They appear to have been put there some time ago. The columns are made up of 2x6's that are nailed together also. Each column consists of two boards a piece. They are placed at each end of the header. As for them finishing the project, I believe that they considered it finished because they mudded in around the beam and painted over it in the kitchen. They also placed molding around the ceiling in the living room, which is the adjoining room, where the header is at.
We have a house that is approximately 2,000 sq feet. Only a 16x13 square foot area of that area is the kitchen. The original shape of the house was a rectangle, two story house. Directly over the beam are the roof lines. This original roof line runs the entire length of the longest end of the house in an East West direction. Running in a 90 degree angle in the Northern direction is the roof for the kitchen. The load bearing wall is at the joint where these two roof lines meet above the beam In the basement at the edge of the foundation, where the column is above, there is a footing that looks like it may be bricks, possibly cinder blocks, doubled up and stacked neatly, level and undisturbed, maybe twelve inches square and I am not sure about the height. I do know that it is not poured concrete.
We live in a Township with a few hundred people and we haven't been here long enough to know county policies. There a few unzoned communities here. There are a few oppurtunities for projects in this house because the previous owners didn't have the money to get help and tried to do repairs or projects themselves. They also tried to add a support beam in the bedroom but didn't do that properly either. They used the same principle as before with the beam using screws for fastening the boards together instead. They used 2 L plates that were screwed into the heavy 1/2"panelling at one end. Then put screws into the beam at intervals along the beam into the ceiling. On the other end of the beam 45t0.hey screwed the L plate into the ceiling they were trying to shore up. They never added columns for support. So I would be surprised if there were any permits pulled for this house. Thanks again. Hoped this explanation was better. |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 565
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Your problem is too complicated to be properly answered here. You really need to talk to an architect or a structural engineer. They can look at the situtation and then do the structural calculations to determine if all is well or if there are things that need to be corrected. |
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1919
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, only someone coming out and looking could say for sure. The twist in the beam could be a defect in the lumber or caused by excessive load.
Is the beam bowed down in the center? Are the 2x6 studs holding it up bowed? Is the floor sagging where the load from the beam is resting?
Even if the beam is adequate the floor/foundation needs to carry the load to the soil.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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