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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Just wondering......
Can any of you esteemed readers remember any leading Democrat ... Kennedy, Pelosi or the like ... urging Iraqis to go out there and vote in the national election on Sunday? I'm not saying it hasn't happened. I am saying that I certainly don't remember it happening. Simply put, most partisan Democrats (maybe some in here included?) don't want Iraqis to vote on Sunday. They want Sunday's vote to be a failure. They put any concern they have for freedom and for a democratically elected government in Iraq below their desires for Bush to fail. Aren't you proud to be a Democrat  |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Today would be a good day to be kind to a Democrat. They won't be in a good mood. The people of Iraq have voted in their first free election in 50 years. Credit goes to Bush. Depression goes to the Democrats.
Yes it truely was an HISTORIC DAY IN IRAQ!
Much to the dismay of the mainstream media and many in the Democratic party, including JK, voters turned out in Iraq in record numbers with minimal violence to make Iraq's first election in 50 years a smashing success. Here are the final statistics, with results expected in 7 to 10 days:
a. 8 million Iraqis voted in the election
b. Unofficial estimates put the turnout at between 60 and 70%, higher than our most recent presidential election
c. 44 people were killed in attacks on election day.
While tragic, nowhere near the doom and gloom predicted by the left...now... let's discuss Democratic reaction to this historic weekend. In short, this is not what Democrats wanted to see. They wanted negative news this weekend, not positive.
Did you see those Iraqis dancing in the streets? Did you see the incredibly long lines? Hours! They waited for hours. On crutches, in wheelchairs .. they waited hours for the chance to cast their vote in Iraq's first democratic elections in over 50 years. Islamic terrorists had told them that they would be killed if they voted ... but there they were, waiting in line nonetheless. After they left the polling places they joined celebrations in the streets ... holding their ink-stained fingers aloft as a badge of honor and a symbol of freedom.
Of course with the Bush administration experiencing such overwhelming success in Iraq yesterday, the Democrats couldn't stand it. Remember, what's good for America is good for George Bush, and that's not good for the left  |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:39 am Post subject: |
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From "The Independent":
This election will change the world. But not in the way the Americans imagined
Robert Fisk in Baghdad
01/29/05 "The Independent" -- Shias are about to inherit Iraq, but the election tomorrow that will bring them to power is creating deep fears among the Arab kings and dictators of the Middle East that their Sunni leadership is under threat.
America has insisted on these elections - which will produce a largely Shia parliament representing Iraq's largest religious community - because they are supposed to provide an exit strategy for embattled US forces, but they seem set to change the geopolitical map of the Arab world in ways the Americans could never have imagined. For George Bush and Tony Blair this is the law of unintended consequences writ large.
Amid curfews, frontier closures and country-wide travel restrictions, voting in Iraq will begin tomorrow under the threat of Osama bin Laden's ruling that the poll represents an "apostasy". Voting started among expatriate Iraqis yesterday in Britain, the US, Sweden, Syria and other countries, but the turnout was much smaller than expected.
The Americans have talked up the possibility of massive bloodshed tomorrow and US intelligence authorities have warned embassy staff in Baghdad that insurgents may have been "saving up" suicide bombers for mass attacks on polling stations.
But outside Iraq, Arab leaders are talking of a Shia "Crescent" that will run from Iran through Iraq to Lebanon via Syria, whose Alawite leadership forms a branch of Shia Islam. The underdogs of the Middle East, repressed under the Ottomans, the British and then the pro-Western dictators of the region, will be a new and potent political force.
While Shia political parties in Iraq have promised that they will not demand an Islamic republic - their speeches suggest that they have no desire to recreate the Iranian revolution in their country - their inevitable victory in an election that Iraq's Sunnis will largely boycott mean that this country will become the first Arab nation to be led by Shias.
On the surface, this may not be apparent; Iyad Allawi, the former CIA agent and current Shia "interim" Prime Minister, is widely tipped as the only viable choice for the next prime minister - but the kings and emirs of the Gulf are facing the prospect with trepidation.
In Bahrain, a Sunni monarchy rules over a Shia majority that staged a mini-insurrection in the 1990s. Saudi Arabia has long treated its Shia minority with suspicion and repression.
In the Arab world, they say that God favoured the Shia with oil. Shias live above the richest oil reserves in Saudi Arabia and upon some of the Kuwaiti oil fields. Apart from Mosul, Iraqi Shias live almost exclusively amid their own country's massive oil fields. Iran's oil wealth is controlled by the country's overwhelming Shia majority.
What does all this presage for the Sunni potentates of the Arabian peninsula? Iraq's new national assembly and the next interim government it selects will empower Shias throughout the region, inviting them to question why they too cannot be given a fair share of their country's decision-making.
The Americans originally feared that parliamentary elections in Iraq would create a Shia Islamic republic and made inevitable - and unnecessary - warnings to Iran not to interfere in Iraq. But now they are far more frightened that without elections the 60 per cent Shia community would join the Sunni insurgency.
Tomorrow's poll is thus, for the Americans, a means to an end, a way of claiming that - while Iraq may not have become the stable, liberal democracy they claimed they would create - it has started its journey on the way to Western-style freedom and that American forces can leave.
Few in Iraq believe that these elections will end the insurgency, let alone bring peace and stability. By holding the poll now - when the Shias, who are not fighting the Americans, are voting while the Sunnis, who are fighting the Americans, are not - the elections can only sharpen the divisions between the country's two largest communities.
While Washington had clearly not envisaged the results of its invasion in this way, its demand for "democracy" is now moving the tectonic plates of the Middle East in a new and uncertain direction. The Arab states outside the Shia "Crescent" fear Shia political power even more than they are frightened by genuine democracy.
No wonder, then, King Abdullah of Jordan is warning that this could destabilise the Gulf and pose a "challenge" to the United States. This may also account for the tolerant attitude of Jordan towards the insurgency, many of whose leaders freely cross the border with Iraq.
The American claim that they move secretly from Syria into Iraq appears largely false; the men who run the rebellion against US rule in Iraq are not likely to smuggle themselves across the Syrian-Iraqi desert when they can travel "legally" across the Jordanian border.
Tomorrow's election may be bloody. It may well produce a parliament so top-heavy with Shia candidates that the Americans will be tempted to "top up" the Sunni assembly members by choosing some of their own, who will inevitably be accused of collaboration. But it will establish Shia power in Iraq - and in the wider Arab world - for the first time since the great split between Sunnis and Shias that followed the death of the Prophet Muhammad.
©2005 Independent Digital (UK) Ltd
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Yes it is obvious that this post article by RH was from before the elections, for this was far from the truth:
| Quote: | Tomorrow's election may be bloody. It may well produce a parliament so top-heavy with Shia candidates that the Americans will be tempted to "top up" the Sunni assembly members by choosing some of their own, who will inevitably be accused of collaboration. But it will establish Shia power in Iraq - and in the wider Arab world - for the first time since the great split between Sunnis and Shias that followed the death of the Prophet Muhammad.
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Some voters walked for miles to be able to cast their votes. One 75-year-old man traveled three miles in his wheelchair for a shot at democracy: "My poor nephew pushed me all the way. But I had to come. Now that the criminal Saddam is gone this could be my only chance to vote." I wonder what Hillary Clinton would say to this man right now? After all, she was the one that said people, and specifically women, were better off under Saddam Hussein.
Another group of people watching this election closely are the other Arab nations in the region. They want no part of democracy, because it threatens their power base. The idea of Muslims living in a free society frightens them to their very core. Yet as they watch the success in Iraq, they know it could mean their days are numbered.
Now the work of drafting a new constitution begins. Terrorist threats in the Sunni triangle seemed to work. Sunni Muslims didn't exactly flood the polls. This presents a challenge to coalition advisors and a great opportunity to the Shiites and Kurdish majority that almost certainly captured control of the government this weekend. The constitution must show the value of rule of law and protection of individual rights. This constitution must establish a framework of rights to all Iraqis, including Sunni Muslims, and a system of law that will protect those rights against the desires and demands of the majority. When the Sunni people see that there is no desire or intention on the part of the majority to deny them basic rights they will become participants in this great experiment of freedom in the Middle East |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:49 am Post subject: |
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good grief, Donald - you don't see it. You really don't.
yes, yes, sure - cute images, and never mind that the turn out in Fallujah was "low" (it would be - they're dead).
yea, right, people who hate Muslims like you and Bush and Rumsfeld care about their freedom. Like Enron cared for its shareholders, you care.
the rulers in many of the Middle East countries are Sunni. That includes Saudi. Both the House of Saud and the House of bin Laden (forget Osama).
when they perceive that they have been betrayed by Bush, perhaps we will learn what really happened before, during and after 9.11.01.
that may be the most direct result of these elections.
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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A free Iraq with a popularly elected government is a giant step toward a Middle East free of the elements that breed Islamic terrorism....and that is "the most direct result of these elections".
Make no mistake. There are rough times to come. The insurgents will be trying to prove that they're still a force, and that the vote doesn't mean anything. American troops will still be needed until the Iraqi security forces are capable of carrying the load. American troops will remain for the time being ... but over the weeks and months their role will evolve more toward training and less direct confrontation with terrorist elements.
I predict that Iraq will be erecting that statue of President Bush sooner than you might imagine |
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Richard Haut
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Will the statue of Dubya be face-down like the one of Saddam ?
Your affection for the Iraqi people is touching.
Seen alongside your stunning bigotry calling for Muslims to be killed, it is bizarre, but touching nonetheless.
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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RH, you must have run out of any intelligent thoughts to post here. Your insinuations are for the most part, rediculous...and for KM to allow such slander to continue on is beyond belief...but none the less, you fail to convince with illogical postings......must be medicaton time.
So on with the thread...as Kudos are in order for the American Military too.
I wasn't sure it could be done ... but our American military did it. Our men and women in uniform, with the help of dedicated Iraqi security forces and our coalition partners, placed an umbrella of security over Iraq on election day that allowed millions of Iraqis to avoid the violence that had been promised by the enemies of freedom.
There was one intriguing story that received widespread publicity, here and in Iraq, at the very beginning of the voting process. The U.S. military released a video of insurgents firing a missile at the American Embassy. The video was taken from an unmanned aerial vehicle with night vision capability. The drone then followed the terrorists back to their safe house and one could see the video of them going inside. Minutes later that house was surrounded by Marines. I think you know what happened next. That video was soon seen on television throughout Iraq, and insurgent terrorists were certainly in the audience. Common sense would tell you that they were probably a lot less eager to leave their safe houses and launch attacks with these little drones flying around taking pictures and making videos.
Amazing technology for an amazing election |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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"slander", Donald ?
it is often forgotten that for something to be defamatory it has to be untrue.
your own opinions do far more to your reputation than I or anyone else could do or would be interested in doing.
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Today would be a good day to be kind to a Democrat. They won't be in a good mood. The people of Iraq have voted in their first free election in 50 years. Credit goes to Bush. Depression goes to the Democrats....and RH |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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"The Iraqi people want a pullout timetable, security, job opportunities and social services. We will obey the new elected government if it serves the best interests of the Iraqi people. If not, we will be its arch enemies."
- press statement by Moqtada Al-Sadr.
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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I guess Al-Sadr didn't know his newly freed Iraq with a popularly elected government is in fact that giant step toward a Middle East free of the elements that breed Islamic terrorism. Make no mistake. There will be rough times to come, and the insurgents will be trying to prove that they're sill a force, and that the vote doesn't mean anything...with examples like this statement by Al-Sadr....why a timetable?
American troops will still be needed until the Iraqi security forces are capable of carrying the load, setting up their government which will serve in the best interests of their people (who else will it serve?) and getting folks there back to work with real job opportunities...it seems to take forever to do this part...it took over two years in Japan just to get there. American troops will remain for the time being ... but over the weeks and months their role will evolve more toward training and less direct confrontation with terrorist elements...unless of course they meet up with the "arch enemies?"  |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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"why a timetable" ?
Because that is what America agreed with Sistani.
It was the central promise of the election, and the election was intended to stop the Shia from joining the insurgents. That is why Sistani told the Shia to vote.
Sometimes one's word has to be kept.
And if not ? Wait and see.
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| Now the work of drafting a new constitution begins. Terrorist threats in the Sunni triangle seemed to work. Sunni Muslims didn't exactly flood the polls. This presents a challenge to coalition advisors and a great opportunity to the Shiites and Kurdish majority that almost certainly captured control of the government this weekend. The constitution must show the value of rule of law and protection of individual rights. This constitution must establish a framework of rights to all Iraqis, including Sunni Muslims, and a system of law that will protect those rights against the desires and demands of the majority. When the Sunni people see that there is no desire or intention on the part of the majority to deny them basic rights they will become participants in this great experiment of freedom in the Middle East.....and then the "time table" will be set, most likely after all of this occurs....not anytime soon I suspect. |
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Architorture
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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just as an observation from the independant article...
why is the author so fearful that the sunni leadership in many middle east countries will have to now deal with the large shia populations that live in their countries?
if stability in the region is the ultimate goal then there are several other situations that wouldn't necessarily be very good that would offer stability... its not like the middle east has ever gotten along with itself... there only ever seems to be some kind of agreement when they are faced with a common foe of sorts [ei israel] |
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